"Family, friends, food, travel, laughs. My whole existence seems to be dedicated to these five things."
How did Phil Rosenthal go from Emmy-winning creator of Everybody Loves Raymond to a global food superstar with the Netflix reality series Somebody Feed Phil (October 18)? "Everything I learned about how to tell a story on TV is now in the service of this show. Family, friends, food, travel, laughs. My whole existence seems to be dedicated to these five things." But even Rosenthal admits the idea of him hosting a travel food show is wild. "This is the one line that actually sold the show, I said, 'I'm exactly like Anthony Bourdain, if he was afraid of everything.'" Which sums up the frenetic charm of Rosenthal perfectly. "I thought if I'm gonna bang my head on the show business wall [after Raymond], why don't I pick this spot on the wall that I would really, really be passionate about?" And now the popular reality series is a book by the same name. "I would never be pretentious enough to think I'm an expert in all this... There's hardly any recipes from me in there. But I know where the chefs are. So the book is the collection of some of the best chefs in the world."
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Did you ever think you'd be doing a food show, let alone a book and a podcast [Naked Lunch] about food?
No, you know what's funny? I was in an airport. And a guy comes up to me. And he goes, "Hey, you're the food guy." I didn't think I was gonna be a food guy. I still don't think of myself as a food guy. I think of myself as a tourist who loves food. Certainly not an expert in anything. Maybe that one sitcom I did? But that's it. I would never be pretentious enough to think I'm an expert in all this stuff. There's so many more qualified people. There are qualified people who have food shows who are chefs who could do it. I can't do it. I wrote a cookbook. I can't cook. There's hardly any recipes from me in there. We put in, I think, my peanut butter and jelly sandwich as a joke. But I know where the chefs are. So the book is the collection of some of the best chefs in the world. Where are you gonna get a book like this?
But in way, since you're an expert in comedy writing, one of the fundamental things to that is finding stuff people can relate to. Food is the same thing, and I think you've done that so well.
Well, thanks. I knew I loved the area. I didn't know what could I say to pitch it. So I thought of this. This is the line. This is the one line this actually sold the show. I said, "I'm exactly like Anthony Bourdain, if he was afraid of everything." So now you know the sensibility behind that, it's not going to be very serious, and it's not going to be a reluctant adventure. Now, given that we've done six seasons now, have I gotten a little bit more adventurous? Yeah, I have. You can't help it. But that's the point. The world is yours. When you go a tiny bit out of your comfort zone, that's all I ask people. Just try to expand your horizons this much. And you'll see you'll want to keep expanding. That's where the fun is.
You really are the type of friend that can easily get you to try something new.
All I ask is that you try it. I wrote a kid's book with my daughter that will be coming out next year. And it's called Just Try It. It's about a guy like me who has a reluctant daughter and getting her to try stuff. I think it's relatable. Listen, you hit it. The relatability. That's what I stumbled with [Everybody Loves] Raymond. Everything I learned about how to tell a story on TV is now in the service of this show. Family, friends, food, travel, laughs. My whole existence seems to be dedicated to these five things.
The amazing thing about what you do is that food really is just the vessel for a connection between people, sometimes bringing very different types of people together.
I just feel like the world would be better if we all could experience a little bit of other people's experiences, right? And I'm just using food and my stupid sense of humor to get you there. But what I learned on Raymond was it doesn't matter what your message is. No one's gonna listen to your message unless the jokes are funny. The jokes better be funny. The food better be good. Or you're not gonna get my nice message. And, by the way, I had no intention of making a political anything. But how is it that just the embracing of other human beings...a political person might say, "Oh, we know what side he's on." Just from that. That's crazy to me. That is crazy. Food is the great connector. And then, for me, laughs are the cement. If we sit down together, have lunch, hopefully the food is good. We're already not killing each other. Why? Because we understand and relate to eating. If we can share a laugh over that meal, now we're friends.
Your love of food and really the concept of introducing others to food came from an iconic episode of Everybody Loves Raymond where they went to Rome, right?
Okay, so after season one of Raymond, I asked Ray [Romano], where he's going on his vacation between season one and two. And he says, "to the Jersey Shore." I said, 'That's nice. You ever been to Europe?' He goes, "I'm not really interested in other places." What? Even your family's from Italy? "Yeah, no, I like this Shore." A light bulb went off. We got to do that episode. He goes, "What?" We've got to do that episode where you go to Italy with that attitude and you come back with mine, excited about food and travel in Italy. Because when I first went in my twenties, it blew the top of my head off. I never had food like that. Listen, growing up in my parents' house, I didn't have food with any flavor. Garlic was a revelation.
Same. Salt and pepper were too strong of seasonings for my Midwestern parents.
The food would land on the table, my father would take the salt shaker and empty it on his plate before tasting it. "Max. You didn't even taste it." "I like salt." And it's like that. He likes the Jersey Shore. He's not gonna try anything else. So we get him to do the episode. It took three years to get him on a plane, three years before he'd go on a plane. So afraid. But we go, and the arc of the character that I wrote where he gets woke over Italy, at the scene over a slice of pizza. Suddenly tastes it—he's had a cold until that moment—suddenly he tastes it. The best pizza he's ever had in his life. Two beautiful Italian girls walked by. He sees little kids in the yard kicking a soccer ball. He plays a little bit. He sees how gorgeous everything is. He suddenly gets it. That scene makes me cry. That scene is everything that I love about travel and the way food can wake up your senses a little bit. Well, what I saw was that not only did it happen to the character, it happened to my friend Ray. He got it. When we'd be done shooting for the day, "Phil, did you try this gelato? It's unbelievable." Yes, I have. "There's another one over there, don't we have to compare?" Okay. There we go. And we would go from bouncing around piazzas like a ping-pong ball. So much fun. So great. I dare say you do what you do because you like turning people on to stuff you like?
Oh yes, being able to turn someone on to something I enjoy is very much why I do what I do.
So to see my friend Ray get it and change his life, what if I could do that for other people? So from that moment, that was inside me. Now, Raymond ended in 2005. I tried making other sitcoms, I found that the business had changed greatly. In the nine years that we did Raymond, this kind of sensibility wasn't even welcome anymore. I spent years and years just trying to get another one. Not interested. And, to be fair, I wasn't interested in the stuff they were sending my way either. It just wasn't my sensibility. So I thought if I'm gonna bang my head on the show business wall, why don't I pick this spot in the wall that I would really, really be passionate about and that I really love? Now when you go into your agent's office, and you say, coming from having made a sitcom that was successful, "I'd like to do a food and travel show, and I'd like to be the host of it," they look at you as if you pooped on their desk. So it took me 10 years to get first on PBS, and then Netflix.
And now people probably come up to you more about food than Everybody Loves Raymond. Does that ever get to be a lot? People always asking you about food?
Never, never. Listen, I'm not Justin Bieber. I can go out of my house. They're not tearing my clothes off. I actually have said this, my level of fame right now, I wish everybody had, which is once or twice a day somebody comes by to say they like you. I don't get that in my house. So it's very nice when I go outside and somebody likes me. It's so nice. I guess if you reach a point like Justin Timberlake and you can't go outside, maybe it embittered you a little bit, if you really do lose your freedom because they're going to mob you and you literally can't walk. But, Bruce Springsteen, at the height of Bruce Springsteen, did an interview where he said he doesn't put on a mask or go incognito, and people come up and say hi. That's it. And if you're available to people and not hiding or intimidating. Let's be honest, everyone gets into show business so that they will be recognized [laughs]. To anybody reading this or listening to it, you can always say hi to me. Sometimes I get these DMs, "Oh, I saw you didn't want to bother you." You could bother me. Most people are sweet and great, of every kind, famous or not famous. Here's a generality: I find that most people around the world are so much better than their governments.
In the first episode of the new season of Somebody Feed Phil, you go to Croatia, which was a surprise. What can people expect from the new season?
I thought, why are we going there? Didn't they have war? Didn't it used to be Yugoslavia? Why are we going there? And then you get there, "Oh, this is Italy.'"And a lot of it is half the price of Italy. So I advise kids, if you want a quick trip and you don't have a lot of money to spend? This seems good. Look at this place. It actually is where Eastern and Western Europe meet. And you have the culture and the food. Best of both. I can't wait to go back there. I want to take my family there.
Because of all the great food you eat, do you ever step back and go, "just give me a sandwich?"
I have reached a point in my life now where if there's a dinner of just a hot dog, I'm perfectly fine with that. Because I feel so blessed that I've gotten to eat the best food in the world. Not every dinner now needs to be as special as it used to be.
The book is such a great companion to the show, in that you really get to experience the food you see in the show.
I did a multimedia book. So the stories are me talking and then you get a PDF of all the photos and the recipes. You can see it on your iPad or your computer. So it's the best of both worlds. What I hope people take from the book is the same thing they take from the show. Put it down and go.
You can take it with you!
You could. But I also have the website PhilRosenthalWorld.com. Everywhere we go on the show is listed there with the contacts for each place. So you can click it and make the reservation.
There's an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond ["Fairies," Season 5, Episode 16] that has always stayed with me. One of the kids wants to play the fairy in the school's holiday play, and the family is panicked over what it means about the kid.
My God, he's going to be gay. As if that was terrible. But the whole image that you would have a son who's literally a fairy and they'd rather the kid be a rock in this.
Yes, and the delicate balance you had to take in telling the story, with Ray ultimately accepting the boy's desire to be one of the fairies.
We took the responsibility of being on television very seriously. They wanted more hip and edgy. And I said [sarcastically], "Well, you got the right guy. I'm Mr. Hip and Edgy." We did a show that we wanted to see. We knew kids were watching. We knew older people were watching. We said, "Okay, we're going to be risqué sometimes, but we're going to do it artfully." So that we're never going to say words that would offend grandma, or a parent would suddenly say we can't watch because the kids are in the room. If you do it right, you can have your cake and eat it too. Do you remember the sculpture?
Oh, very well, where Marie (played by Doris Roberts) creates a sculpture that's very reminiscent of a certain body part.
Never said the word!
Even though Everybody Loves Raymond went off the air not that long ago, the idea of a family multi-camera sitcom with a studio audience is very rare these days. Do you think it will come back?
I hope so. I know that everything in show business, if not all of life, is cyclical. This is in favor now. That might come back. There's very few multi-camera sitcoms at all. I love the form. To me, the form is this perfect in-between theater and film. When it's good, it's good. People pooh-pooh the form. They don't realize nothing is wrong with the form, it's the content. There were times when we were taping [Everybody Loves Raymond], we were like, "This feels like a hit Broadway show." How it should feel. My influences are All in the Family, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, The Honeymooners, these were the shows! They weren't crazy. They were set on planet Earth. You believe the situations. They were, as you said, the most important thing is being relatable, and I found the key to that relatability is being as specific as you can to your situation. You relate to it because it's specific. And you have specifics in your life. So even if mine aren't yours, you're gonna relate just because it's very specific. That's the key. And I discovered that by accident.
Listen to H. Alan Scott's full conversation with Phil Rosenthal on Newsweek's Parting Shot. Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Twitter: @HAlanScott
