"I'm definitely living on a prayer, and that's probably the magic piece in this special [More Feelings]."
Describing Ramy Youssef's work isn't easy, because he refuses to settle on just one thing. "I feel really inspired to connect in the way that it makes sense." That started out with stand-up, but has since morphed into acting, writing, directing and producing. The New Jersey native's next endeavor, on the heels of his appearance in the Oscar-winning film Poor Things, is the new HBO stand-up special More Feelings (March 23). "I'm definitely living on a prayer, and that's probably the magic piece in this special, where it kind of feels like everything's just hanging by this really thin string." A key to his material is "looking for what allows it to feel like almost a weird, linear thought, but going into a lot of different things ... somehow it's kind of all one thought." But for Youssef, no matter if it's for stand-up, his Hulu series Ramy or Netflix's Mo, the process dictates creativity. "Some ideas are just so good for stand-up and some you want to put on TV. I've started to think of what would really be best fit for film. I've been dabbling in how to take my first swing at that."
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Editor's Note: This conversation has been edited and condensed for publication.
A movie you were in, Poor Things, just won a bunch of Oscars and you've got this new special. So my first question is, how does it feel to be you right now?
You know, I feel very thankful. Thankful to be able to get the work out there. Obviously, we had such a wild year with the strikes and the industry continuing to find its footing, so just getting to collaborate with people that I love and with Poor Things, just getting this film out there, that we worked on years ago. I've never been a part of that. I think I've been part of the TV grind where it's just 16 months straight from writing to shooting to editing, then releasing. [Poor Things] was a bit of a boomerang. But it's been really fun.
Your first special was called Feelings and your new one is called More Feelings. How have your feelings changed over the years?
I think a lot has changed and a lot has stayed the same. A lot of my life changed when I shot the first special. I shot it on April 12. And the show, Ramy, the first season of it was coming out on the 19th. So I was kind of a week away from what felt like a big shift for me where everything would become public. I had been doing stand-up since 2011 or something, but I had never really had anything online. I just had like a Colbert clip up. And then all of a sudden, I was going to go from that to a season of a show [and] an hour of a stand-up special within two months. There's a lot that's shifted. We've done a few seasons of Ramy and we're entering the second season of Mo, and I got to do this film, I got married, so I think a lot of those shifts are clear in the material that's in this show. But then there was this part of me that was like, "But it's also still called Feelings?" Because I think it's my favorite thing about stand-up, I get into things that could be perceived politically. I don't like getting into political conversations. It's more like, these are my feelings about things that are happening that do affect me directly, and the name "feelings" is always really nice to me, because that's all these thoughts are.
Do you feel like you're able to open up more now, considering where you're at?
Well, you know this, in doing stand-up, the more you do it, the more you kind of ... well, two things happen. I think one, on a real practical craft level, it just becomes easier to figure out a joke that feels like yours, because I think things just feel funny to us. And then it's like, "Okay, cool. That feels funny to me. But is it my joke?" And there are times I've thought of a joke and then called a friend and said, "Hey, I think I just thought of your joke." And I think that's an experience I really enjoyed in making my show and writing for other characters, which was the more we made the show, the more that I keep writing for characters that aren't my character. I really like writing for other people. So there's this one side of it that's like, I'm able to understand what my jokes feel like, and my hope would be that in another five years, I would have a whole other grasp. And then there's just my personal life, shaping it. I think one of the best things for stand-up is taking time off. My friends always joke, "You're about to do a special, you shouldn't don't do stand-up for two months," because there's always this funny thing—the running joke is like Ramy's best stand-up is when he hasn't done it for months. I don't like overworking stuff. And so there's a lot of stuff in this new special that I probably wrote in the six weeks leading up to it, because it feels fresh, I'm more excited. And I think that shows.
There's an eagerness to it as well. Even in my own comedy, that frenetic anxiety that comes with it, you can't really get if you workshop it too much. Maybe that's the anxious Jew in me, but it's exciting, to play around with the unknown.
There are tent poles that are there, that are always there. And I think, in this special, it all kind of flows with each other. I'm always looking for what allows it to feel like almost a weird, linear thought, but going into a lot of different things, but somehow it's kind of all one thought. And I think that I find that first and then I can throw in new jokes, because it's not stressful, because I know where it's going. And I kind of know the beginning and the middle and the end, then I can just keep throwing things. There might be one or two things that came up like a day or two or a couple of shows before shooting. Same thing with my first special. It was really fun. I shot that one in Chicago. And there's this great daytime show, so I went, I think got this idea [for a joke], tried it and then put it into the special. So it just makes it feel fun.
Because of the world we live in, if you're part of a marginalized group, even if your material isn't political, somebody is going to politicize it. In light of that, how do you craft your material? Are you worried about people politicizing it too much? Does that ever enter your head?
I think that's why I always try to offer a bit of myself in any sort of critique, and I think one of the rules, even in my first special I was getting into some topical things, and I remember thinking, "I have a joke about R. Kelly," or, "I have a joke about Jussie Smollett in my first special," and I remember thinking, "Well, I don't want to just be making fun of them." Like, what about what Jussie did links to how I feel, and I think that's part of the idea of, again, calling it Feelings, but zoning in on that is like I'm going to go at anything or anyone, trust me, I'm going to go down with you because I'm trying to find how it's all connected and how we are all implicit. And so things aren't as divided as they seem, because we all kind of play a part in it, for better or for worse. So for me, I find that, in thinking about it, getting too politicized, not trying to really get on the pulpit and yell at anybody, I'm trying to just offer as much of myself and connect the link to some of these things and maybe just make them feel a bit more human and allow us to take them apart and put them back together in a different way.
Ultimately what do you want people to take away from this new special?
It's really interesting, the things that stick with people. Something that's been really cool since doing the TV show and then doing live shows and touring is who resonated with it is coming out to crowds that are really 50/50. It is like half Carhartt's, half hijabs, and just seeing that mix. And then you've had people who really resonate with the political stuff, and then you have other people who really resonate with the material about just trying to pray, and even spiritual balances and imbalances, depending on where you're at as a New Jersey native. I'm definitely living on a prayer, and that's probably the magic piece in this special, where it kind of feels like everything's just hanging by this really thin string. But I still think there's a little bit of hope, and I kind of hope people walk away with that, which is like, "Oh, wow, yeah, there's this heavy sh**, but maybe we have a little more in our reserves too, inside of us to kind of deal with it and look at it." I guess the idea of that is always motivating.
Faith and comedy don't always go hand in hand, in many ways the basis of comedy is cynicism. How do you balance your spirituality with comedy?
I think religion is usually a punchline. It's funny, I'll jot down little ideas that are not even part of any show I'm writing or any special I'm writing and somehow they'll kind of tie to the spiritual unseen and trying to figure out how can we kind of get a closer look at it from a different angle. I'm very aware that people are scarred by what I've always referred to as the industry of religion. I think we kind of come at the tail end of a long surge of religion just being weaponized against people, so, rightfully so, people are just like, "I don't really want to hear about that." I think part of what excites me is stepping away from some of that stuff or acknowledging it, because it's so real, but still thinking about the core and the essence that ultimately made any of those things attractive, because that's still there. Everyone's still hitting that in their own version. I know it's a tightrope and I know it's kind of thorny, and it's part of why it excites me. I think even talking about my spiritual practice, but then also sitting it in the context of talking about my Jewish friends and talking about my gay friends and talking about my friends from the mosque, all these people who are of quote, unquote, different identities, and I think something that's pretty clear in this special is you can't really use our identities to try and draw these lines. Because it hasn't been my experience in my personal life. And so there's something about coming into that connectivity in the sea of what might feel like the opposite of that.
Totally, it's what I love about bringing my non-Jewish friends to Shabbat. The eagerness and excitement over it is amazing.
It's undeniably community binding, right? I've been to Shabbats, I've been to Passovers and I've been to, obviously, Ramadans. We do a lot of iftars and anytime you're bringing people together, and this is a big thing in our faith, there's a passage that says, I made you have different tribes so that you can know one another. And what's underneath is this idea that if we're all the same so much could maybe go unsaid because we would assume that the other person is just having the same thing. But when you're in front of somebody who is different, you actually start to communicate certain things. And then you're almost revealing them to yourself as well, right? Because you go, "Oh, this person is different from me, let me explain something." And then as you're explaining it, we all have that sensation in saying something, you go, "Oh, wait, I think I just explained it to myself, I think I just understood something deeper in the act of doing that." And so I think that the melding, it's the point of a lot of those traditions.
Considering you do so much now—acting, writing, producing—has the idea of what you call yourself first evolved? Or do you still see yourself as a comic first?
I feel really inspired to connect in the way that it makes sense. A lot of the time that's stand-up. The things that I figure out that work in a script, so much of that still just derives from stand-up. There's so many stand-up jokes that aren't in the special that then end up in a script. And then there's scripts that you're like, "Oh, wait, I saw him do that in stand-up." It's funny, I don't know what I identify as most. I think there's a chance that I might identify most as a video editor. It's the first thing I ever did. When I was in middle school and high school I would just rip VHSes and reedit them. I would shoot things and edit. So I would maybe identify most with being obsessed with timing. I think that's kind of at the core of all the things I like doing, finding that timing and how to talk to somebody and how to communicate an idea. And then, each idea requires a different time. Some ideas are just so good for stand-up and then some you want to put on TV. I've started to think of what ideas would really be best fit for the timing of the film. I've been dabbling in how to take my first swing at that.
Speaking of, Poor Things is your first big film, which like, it's not a bad thing to have your first film nominated for Best Picture.
That's just a gift. You know? We're so used to just, "I'm going to make my own sh**. I'm going to figure it out." And then every once in a while, you just get a gift. And then you go, "Whoa!"
How shocked are you that you're in a movie that got 11 Oscar nominations? Are you surprised by the recognition the film has received?
The film is so crazy, right? I've always really loved Yorgos [Lanthimos] and gotten into passionate debates with people who are on the spectrum of, "What was that?" You try to show someone Dogtooth and then they start looking at you differently. And so I kind of knew that that would be part of the process when he first told me. I had this great call with him. He said, "I'm doing a film and I'd love for you to do it." And then I got the script, and I actually was shocked at how accessible it felt. Because when I read it, I really thought this is a big comedy. He obviously still makes it have that Yorgos flair, but it's the way it connected. It's weird to say that I'm not surprised, because you're always surprised. So many times you're so sure something is gonna work, but anyone who says they are confident in how an audience is going to receive even one joke, let alone a whole movie is a f****** liar. I think there's still shock and gratitude and all of that. But to get to work with him, but then also to work with actors who I've been a fan of my whole life, you know, Willem [Dafoe] and Mark [Ruffalo] and, obviously, Emma [Stone]. I mean, come on.
One of the things that I think is so brilliant about Emma Stone is she's this incredible actor with a real comedic timing. Did you notice that?
She's a freak. And again, I love timing more than anything, she has the best timing of anyone I've ever been near. She is just on another level. It's weird to say that it's not just because we work together, and she's my friend, but I can only imagine, I was never in the room with Robin Williams, but she probably has those capabilities on that level where you go, "Whoa. Am I in front of someone who could do anything?" It feels that way with her.
Between your work on Mo and directing an episode of The Bear, you're doing a lot of work behind the camera. Do you feel the same sense of creative accomplishment that you do from being onstage?
Honestly, sometimes it feels nicer. I noticed that in the edit on this special and obviously in the edit on Ramy, there are a lot of people who say, "Don't edit yourself, because it's hard to look at yourself." I definitely find it actually quite freeing to be in those positions. I think when you find something that feels worth sharing, whether it is directly coming out of your mouth or someone else's, I find it to be just as fun, because it's more about the act of finding. Even if I'm behind the camera, it's still connecting. I sincerely mean it when I say it's just as satisfying. Sometimes it's more satisfying. Going through hair and makeup and picking clothes is not fun. I'm definitely looking forward to a time where I'm just directing something like a long film or something that I'm not in at all and I could just eat a lot of candy.
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