Dan Savage Tells Colbert Why Hillary's Marriage Equality Flip-Flop Should Be Forgiven

As the debate over the North Carolina "bathroom bill" rages on, few have been as vocal as LGBT activist Dan Savage. Last night, the Seattle-based columnist, podcast host and Twitter presence appeared on the Late Show to inject some common sense into the discourse surrounding the issue, explaining to Stephen Colbert how HB2 is nothing but a fear-based measure meant to discriminate against people legislators do not—and do not care to—understand.

"[This debate is about] where people all over this country have been using bathrooms forever, without incident, can continue to use the bathroom," Savage told Colbert. "This is all about some imaginary threat. This is the same stuff—what they're saying about trans people in North Carolina and other states—that they used to say about gay men: that gay men preyed on children, that we lurked in bathrooms, that we recruited. They couldn't tell these lies anymore about gays and lesbians, so they just started telling these lies now about trans people."

Part of the reason mainstream culture has embraced gay rights to the degree it has, Savage notes, is the number of public figures who are proudly gay. When something is foreign, it is easier to discriminate against. Now that celebrities like Ellen DeGeneres, Neil Patrick Harris and others have publicly embraced their sexuality, it's harder to restrict their rights. Homosexuality is now real and tangible and on our TVs. If the gap hasn't been bridged, a bridge is at least under construction.

The trans community isn't quite as far along, which makes it a cozy home for the nation's displaced bigotry against homosexuals. As evinced by HB2, there is still a long way to go, but Savage points out trans celebrities like Laverne Cox, Janet Mock and Caitlyn Jenner. (Though Savage makes clear that he is not particularly a fan of Jenner, who pledged her support to Ted Cruz.)

The election in November will go a long way in determining how quickly progress will be made, and you better believe Savage has a few thoughts. Though he is staunchly anti-Trump and calls the candidate a "dangerous demagogue," he points out that Trump himself hasn't been as ardently anti-LGBT as other Republicans. "He has not really emphasized marriage equality or discriminating against LGBT people," says Savage. "He actually said that he opposed laws criminalizing trans people using the bathrooms that are appropriate for them to use. So it's kind of a mixed bag. Although he's surrounded himself with homophobes like Ben Carson, like Chris Christie, and he's promised to put people on the Supreme Court who will overturn marriage equality and forcibly divorce me, because that's 'pro-marriage.'"

But many LGBT-focused Democrats also take issue with Trump's likely opponent, Hillary Clinton, who hasn't had a sterling record when it comes to marriage equality. In 2004, the then-Senator from New York defined marriage as, "a sacred bond between a man and a woman." But Clinton has since changed her tune, which, as far as Savage is concerned, is all that matters.

"She wasn't always good on gay marriage, but neither was Barack Obama," he explained. "When you go to a politician and say, 'Please, change your mind,' when they change their mind, you don't then spend the rest of their lives going, 'Why the f*ck didn't you change your mind sooner?!' You say, 'Welcome to the right side of this issue. We're glad to have you.'"

To this, the studio audience in the Ed Sullivan Theater cheered.