"I finally feel like I'm un-canceled. This is gonna sound so embarrassing, it's taken time for America to forgive me."
When a photo of Kathy Griffin holding the fake decapitated head of former President Donald Trump went viral in 2017, her entire world stopped. "I was in the middle of a 50-city tour and all the shows got canceled within 72 hours." After years of self-care, plus fighting cancer, Griffin is back with her first stand-up comedy tour since the incident, "My Life on the PTSD-List" (beginning February 2). The show's title derives from both her own PTSD and also the country's collective PTSD after the Trump years, COVID and so much more. "I laugh at all the sh**." But there's one name that won't be mentioned in Griffin's new show: Donald Trump. "I'm not afraid of it. It just literally doesn't come up." The name of the show is a play on her former Bravo reality series My Life on the D-List, which earned Griffin multiple Emmys. Even though she doubts a network or streaming service would be interested in doing a reality show the way she wants, she's open to the idea. "If anybody wants me to do an unscripted show again, I would say okay, but can we make it funny first?"
SUBSCRIBE TO THE PARTING SHOT WITH H. ALAN SCOTT
ON APPLE PODCASTS OR SPOTIFY
Editor's Note: This conversation has been edited and condensed for publication.
I have to tell you, as a young comic, you were a huge inspiration for me. When I started, everybody was trying to be Jerry Seinfeld or Louis C.K., doing traditional setup, punchline comedy, but I was doing stories like you, using my personality. So thank you.
That's so cool. I love hearing that because those guys have been really tough on me over the decades. Some of them have said, earlier on in my career, they don't think I'm a real stand up because I don't do setup, punchline. And when I go to see a comic, for some reason I like to feel like I know the person a little better. Look, I certainly I admire joke tellers, because trust me, if I'm halfway through a 10-minute story and they're not with me, I'm like, f***, I wish I was Jerry Seinfeld. But it's the only way I know how to do it. And thank God, I kind of found outlets for it eventually. I mean, I wasn't even on TV till I was f****** 36. So, very late bloomer. But I am so grateful that people come to the theater. It's an evening with [me]; I don't even have an opener, so they know what they're getting. But I'm so grateful. They know, oh, she's gonna ramble. And there might be seven jokes in this little clip, but then the rest is torque, and then this is setup. So, I'm thrilled when people are just open to a different cadence.
How does it feel to be back performing and touring with "My Life on the PTSD List"?
I finally feel like I'm un-canceled. And I don't even like to use that word because when I think of people being canceled, I think of Louis [C.K.] rubbing his dick up against girls, I think of that chick [Gina Carano] from the Mandalorian being a Holocaust denier [in 2021, Carano published a post on X, formerly Twitter, in which she implied conservatives today were being treated like Jews in Nazi Germany]. So frankly, I get a little high and mighty because I'm like, no, no, I wasn't canceled, I was investigated by the Department of Justice for conspiracy to assassinate the president [of the] United States and put on the f****** no-fly list. So it's been a different kind of climb out of this trench for me, because I had no supportive network. I had no support of an agency. I just got a manager and an agent like a month ago, this tour came together really quickly. So I am beyond thrilled that these venues are willing to ask me because when the Trump thing happened, I was in the middle of a 50-city tour and all the shows got canceled within 72 hours. But I don't blame the theaters because I can't imagine them getting death threats. And I'm lucky enough to play theaters. They're used to like Blue Man Group. I play theaters where they have The Lion King or Stomp, and then all sudden they're like getting calls from MAGA people saying, if that f****** c*** gets up there, blah, blah. So it's been a long time that I just thought, what's going to happen? Because these theaters have to know I'm gonna sell tickets. And they have to know I'm going to do what I've been doing for decades before the Trump thing.
Then I got [lung] cancer. So now I use the Madonna microphone. I feel very fancy with that, and it helps the amplification tremendously, because when I start to do standup, the adrenaline makes my voice pitch up a little higher. I have to do a schtick at the very beginning of the show, here's why my voice sounds different, I'm cancer free, I'm good, but yes, I sound like a Muppet. Or I sound like Minnie Mouse. I would guess like 75 percent of the audience probably knows what I've been through. They probably have either read about cancer, and everybody saw the Trump pic. Are we kidding? And so I think it's just taken time. And this is gonna sound so embarrassing, it's taken time for America to forgive me.
When that Trump thing happened, it was so crazy and there was a lot of madness around me, a lot of insanity. And a lot of people reaching out to give me their opinion, but nobody really helped. I would have loved it if Lorne Michaels would have given me a cameo on SNL. Or I would have loved it if Netflix would have stepped up and said, we'll do a special or like something that would have just calmed the buyers down. I remember Sharon Stone said to me, this is going to take you about five years. I was so mad at her. I said—I call her Stoney—I go "Stoney, you're not helping? Fine." I'm a workaholic. And she was freaking right. It's been six freaking years. I think it's been this combination of people realizing that photo was really just a photo, people realizing it really was the Trump administration that targeted me in a way that just was different than other celebrities. It just was bigger. They manipulated that photo, and it was in Iran and China and Russia in 12 hours. I never even knew something like that existed. And then the left turning on me saying, "Well, you've made things worse." I think it's just taken a while for people to be like, oh, number one, the Trump years were incredibly chaotic. Even if you're an independent or you don't hate Trump, you got to admit they were crazy. I mean, do you remember the daily, just him signing those executive orders? And you're chasing this madness. For me, in a way, I was trying to say, "No, this guy really is dangerous." That's why I took the photo. But on the other hand, it really is just a photo. And if everybody can just calm down, I'm still the girl from My Life on the D-List, Suddenly Susan, 21 specials, or whatever you want. But Sharon still was right. It took years.
But that's also the job of the comic, to be a bit of a provocateur. To look and talk about things in a different way to make people think.
I was raised by Don Rickles and Joan Rivers. They were such dear friends. I miss Joan every day. Same with Don, but I knew Joan better. And obviously, we had a special friendship and stuff. But I can't imagine Joan doing just a lovely hour of safe jokes. She got to play my mom on Suddenly Susan, which is one of the times we got to get really close. And I remember getting mad at the writers because they would be so mad at her when she would improvise jokes. It's Joan Rivers! It was funnier than what they wrote. I'm sorry, but that's true. That is the truth. I remember going up to one of them [and saying] if Joan came up with another sentence that replaces yours, just say thank you. I actually love this resurgence of all this [George] Carlin stuff. And I'm not I'm not putting myself in the same class of Carlin, but there's a whole George Carlin TikTok [of videos] and the way they're prescient today is fascinating. So I think there's a place for those safe comics. I think it's great that Jerry Seinfeld doesn't curse, all ages can go see his show and that's wonderful. And there's a place for that. It's just not what I do, and I wouldn't do it if I tried.
You've always been that way, very direct and honest with your work but also just how you are. I'm thinking of your comments on Andy Cohen.
That unfolded before everybody's eyes, and it was because of the Trump picture. So Jeff Zucker, who I had tussled with for 15 years, when he was my boss at NBC, I would go to him personally for raises. And he resented the f*** out of that. I didn't know that you're not supposed to do that, because my agents were afraid of him. I wasn't. And I remember one time, I'm not even kidding, one time I had my mom, Maggie, call Jeff Zucker. And he got on the phone because who could turn down Maggie? She went, "Now Jeff, Kathleen works very hard." And it was just funny. But then when the Trump thing happened, I think I realized, oh, all the years I was doing stuff like that with Andy Cohen [who previously was an executive on Bravo], either trying to get a raise or trying to get more than eight episodes a year, I honestly didn't know those dudes do not like that. The agents are supposed to do it [or] the managers. I just watched Joan, and I watched her fight these battles herself, and she and I talked about this a lot. I just thought, oh, they know I'm fighting for the betterment of the show, or the special or the work. And then when the Trump thing happened, it was like Jeff Zucker, Anderson Cooper, Andy Cohen, and I just went, oh, my God, he [Andy Cohen] literally took my gig [co-hosting CNN's New Year's special]. He took my gig. And that was a seismic thing. Once again, it's taken a while, but I do hear from people a lot like, oh, that reminds me of a time, I was in my office situation, and there was a guy like that. One thing I think that has helped with people forgiving me, some people literally saw that and they were like, ouch. I would never do that to someone ever. But that's the reality and that's that. But guess what? I have a whole new show, and I don't even mention Trump.
Oh really? That's so interesting.
I'm not afraid of it. It just literally doesn't come up. That's what I think is so interesting,
Considering that now people are willing to book you, theaters aren't afraid, and just seeing Trump's impact dwindling electorally in certain parts of the country where he previously had a stronghold, are you seeing it as kind of a change in the electorate?
I am. I'm in love with the title, even though I know it's long, but I think we all have a kind of a collective PTSD. Oh, and by the way, we kind of act like COVID didn't happen. We're kind of like going along and merry, and every so often you hear about somebody that gets COVID again. I have friends that got COVID five times. I have many friends with long COVID. Therapy has never been more popular because people didn't know how to deal with being shut down and lonely. Or like my cousins who are Trump-ers, so they call they call the vaccine "the jab." Okay, f******. I have half a lung. I had lung cancer, and this is a respiratory disease. So please keep your "Matthew Perry died from the vaccine sh** away from me." But even in Vegas. I said, "clap if you've lost anyone, whether it's in your Facebook group or your office or relative, to either MAGA or QAnon." And I'm telling you two thirds of the audience claps. Because the QAnon sh** is getting bigger. And Twitter turning into X is so bizarre, so bizarre, and so I just thought, let's just call it "My Life on the PTSD-List." And let's have fun with it, because let's stop acting like we haven't all been through a sh**storm. And I think there could be a shift change right now. But let me tell you, I'm nervous. I know a lot of people that say some sh** that is QAnaon and crazy. I know people that don't vote. I know people that just maybe need some PTSD therapy and decided not to get it or whatever. So I thought, I'm gonna make the show about that. I laugh at all the sh**. I make jokes about AA because I became a prescription pill addict, and literally tried to take my life. Because when I look back on it, I have to fucking laugh. That's how I get through. Because I was diagnosed with PTSD, which really kicked in after my cancer, like the Trump stuff was really rough with the cancer, [it] put me over the edge.
I had cancer too, testicular cancer, and the shock that it sends to your entire system and life is intense. I did my chemo in Beverly Hills, and the late (and great) Penny Marshall was getting chemo the same time I was.
Okay, see, that's the type of stuff I put in my show. Because I don't want people to be afraid of me mentioning cancer because there's too much funny sh**. I have been called Kathie Lee Gifford, like just funny stuff. Because once you're in the kind of cancer pipeline, you're dealing with the health industry, and some places, they're understaffed and some places they give you the wrong medicine. And the surgeon who took out my half lung actually said to me, he goes, "You know, the lobes of your lung are really kind of almost like a balloon. So all we do is we go in there and we basically puncture out the lobe of your lung that has the tumor in it and we take it out. And after that it kind of looks like a used condom. You can use that." I'm like, I'm using it but I'm making fun of you [for it].
I had that, too. I had a doctor who, after learning I did comedy, only wanted to talk about comedy. And I'm like, I'm here for cancer, thank you. I had another moment where they told me I had to have this shot that wasn't covered by my insurance and it would cost $14,000. I was like, I guess I'm going in debt today.
The last thing they want to talk about is billing. They don't know what anything costs ever, but they're still kind of selling the stuff. By the way, I love the Penny Marshall story, because let's face it, when you get cancer in L.A., you're gonna see a celebrity. It's just inevitable. And then you go like, do I talk to them? Because we're in this together? Or is it a private moment? I'm absolutely still on the D list but I'm also still very enamored with talented people. And I don't mean necessarily somebody who's famous for being famous, but I mean, Penny Marshall, I didn't know her very well, but whenever I saw her I was like, f****** Penny Marshall, man.
I'm also loving these salons you've been doing, which go crazy on social media. Just the concept of these interesting people around a table discussing big ideas, I think it's perfect for you. What do you get out of them?
They give me life. Because when the whole Trump thing went down, I lost like 75 percent of my friends and let me tell you, they never came back. So, when people are like, well, I hope Anderson Cooper has apologized. I'm like, honey, nobody's apologized. They all dumped me. And they're like, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
So when I got sober, I started making a lot of friends in AA, which is kind of a good start. Because what I love about AA meetings—I go to a Zoom meetings, but I go to one every day—and everybody has three minutes to share. But it's this no bullsh** zone. So nobody is going to use their three minutes to talk about whatever. It's like, oh my God, I almost got drunk last night, or how am I gonna get through this without a pill or booze or whatever? I was like, I have no more tolerance for bullsh** after that Trump thing and cancer. It's like when you're facing that, life's too short to either try to get somebody back that maybe wasn't so great in the first place, and that's kind of what started the salons. Although, I have to be honest, I really was inspired by two women that invited me to their salons. The late great, dear Gloria Vanderbilt. Those were insane. And because she was older, and all those folks were older, it wouldn't even occur to them to have phones at the table. So when I would go to her house, it was just these amazing conversations. And the other one was there was a Hollywood super agent, and she was the first female agent, a really big name, Sue Mengers. Bette Midler went on to play her on Broadway. I got to go to about a dozen of those f****** Mengers sit-downs, and it was crazy. It was like Jack Nicholson, Paul Simon, David Geffen. It was nuts. But she ran those with an iron fist. Once again, no phones at the table.
I insist [at mine] it's only one conversation at a time. So even if it's 12 people, and you might be excited because you met someone interesting next to you in the chair, no side conversations, and everybody actually is heard. And I call on people because I know the introverts aren't going to get in there. Something fucking magical happens. And I do a text chain. At first when there's a celebrity, they hate that I put their cell number out to strangers. I'm sorry. And after every single salon, those text chains continue. I may see you again in a year. I may never see you again. My dear friend Sia is really recluse. She is an old fashioned recluse. And she fu****** leaves the house to come to the salons. And, of course, I make her sing because her voice is unmatched. She sang at one, just like a verse or whatever, but then another guest, Mo Collins from MadTV, burst into tears because when Mo had cancer, she would listen to Sia to get through chemo. And Sia went and hugged her. It was nuts. So I'm trying to encourage people to have their own salons. It's just phones down, smart people, people that maybe wouldn't meet each other [otherwise]. And during my whole six years of feeling kind of left out there, that's how I kind of was able to find people. Like look, I don't know you very well, but I know you'd be great at a salon. And some of these people I would just DM on like Instagram or Twitter. And it would work. You know what? Nothing beats a nice f****** conversation with people.
I was such a huge fan of My Life on the D-List, such a transformative reality show. I wanted to know, in this day and age, in this pop culture climate, would you do another reality show?
Yes, I would. But I don't see a network or streamer that I know of that would let me do a show that was that real. What I tried to do with that show was make it a sitcom disguised as a reality show. And originally my old pal Jeff Zucker, he said he was gonna give me an NBC, Jerry Seinfeld-like million dollars an episode, four camera [sitcom called] Kathy. Then he came to see my act and he went, "Oh, you don't need writers." And then I was kicked over to Bravo. They really did follow me around and hope I did funny sh**. Like stuff wasn't staged. My parents were very authentic. By the way, they should have spun off my parents. And so that's what I would hope [for] if anybody wants me to do an unscripted show again. I would say "Okay, but can we make it funny first?" But I'm learning everything old is new again, the '90s are back and the aughts are back. You just never know. But if anybody would ever want to do a nostalgia project with me, I'll take it however you want to label it, as long as I can be funny.
Listen to H. Alan Scott on Newsweek's Parting Shot. Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Twitter: @HAlanScott
