Exclusive: Dean Phillips on Stimulus Checks, Weed and the Risk of Joe Biden

Democratic presidential hopeful Dean Phillips proudly admits that he "ruined" his career in Congress by launching his controversial primary run against President Joe Biden, saying he wishes more elected lawmakers would be willing to take similar risks.

Phillips officially launched his campaign in late October after months of raising alarm about Biden's abysmal polling numbers. While he initially encouraged other leading Democrats to throw their hat into the ring, the Minnesota congressman eventually decided that if anyone was going to do it, it would have to be him. While he acknowledges his "respect" for Biden and his alignment with the president on many issues, Phillips is convinced that the incumbent simply cannot win the 2024 general election.

Recent polls do show Biden poorly positioned against former President Donald Trump, the clear front-runner for the GOP's nomination, as well as against the runners-up, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. Biden's defenders, however, point to Democrats' relative success in the midterms as well as in the 2023 off-year elections. They say that when given the choice between an "extreme" GOP and an 81-year-old Democrat, voters will ultimately back the president.

In an exclusive interview at Newsweek's Manhattan office on Tuesday, Phillips highlighted key areas where he differs from Biden and how he aims to offer a serious alternative in the Democratic primary.

For example, he said he'd "immediately" work toward legalizing cannabis at the federal level, whereas Biden has resisted even decriminalizing the drug. He announced his support for Medicare for All, a health care policy that Biden actively opposed during his 2020 run. The congressman also wants to further explore the idea of universal basic income, raised concerns about the impact of artificial intelligence and pointed to the success of stimulus checks during the COVID-19 pandemic.

"People in their 80s do not see things, have not lived things, have not experienced things that younger generations have," Phillips said, explaining why he thinks Biden opposes policy ideas that polls show to be popular.

Whether Phillips can ultimately break through with Democratic voters remains to be seen, as most polls still show him in the single-digit range. In several recent surveys, fellow Democratic candidate Marianne Williamson has nearly double the support of the congressman. Nonetheless, Phillips is confident that things will turn around in the coming months.

This interview has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.

I know that you have pointed out how you actually agree with President Biden on a lot of issues. I was wondering if you could just talk about areas where you see yourself as being distinct from him.

Let's start with just the basic notion of winning an election. I mean, this is a policy. And people have asked, Why am I running? Fact of the matter is, Joe Biden is going to lose to Donald Trump. And that's a big point of difference. I believe I'm someone who can put together a coalition to defeat Donald Trump.

Joe Biden was probably the only one who could have done that in 2020. I think he's among the only ones who can't in 2024. That's what Americans have decided. So there's a policy difference. I don't think he should be running for president.

I think there should have been a broader stage of other Democrats competing because I think that's what democracy demands. I still wish he would pass the torch. I still wish others would have contemplated if not jumped into the race.

Next is affordability. There's a massive encapsulation of Washington that keeps people there from understanding how people are really suffering. Sixty percent of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Forty percent can't afford a $400 emergency. There's a crisis. When the administration says time and time again how great the macro economy is—which it is, and I salute them for that—people are struggling.

So let's start with health care. It's time for Medicare for All. It's time for every single person in America to have health care. Twenty-six million have none. Ninety million are uninsured. We pay double per capita any developed nation in the world for health care. Our outcomes are mid-pack. And we tolerate pharma companies selling us the same pharmaceuticals that they sell to [us] at three, four, five, six times more than anywhere else in the world. It's unsustainable, it's unfair, and it is a tragedy that has to be addressed. That's a big difference.

Housing. We are 7 million homes shy of having enough housing for every American right now. Half a million living in the streets every single night. Massive difference. Should be an all-hands-on-deck, massive housing production initiative. Education. The fact that we still burden young people with hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands of dollars in debt to attend college is absurd. Three areas of affordability that have to be addressed immediately.

Fourth, the southern border. It is a disaster, and Democrats should acknowledge it is not in the country's best interest. It's a national security issue. It's also an issue of humanity. What we are forcing migrants to do, spend their life savings, pay Mexican cartels to bring them across the Rio Grande, is tragic. And we should solve it. It's a failure of Democratic and Republican administrations for generations.

Those are four areas, and I'll say the fifth is this, peace. Joe Biden has been a senator for, in Washington for 50 years, a senator for most [of that time]. Eight years as vice president, three years as president. And if you look at what's occurring in the world, war in the Middle East, war in Eastern Europe, a lack of peace at home, these are very dangerous times. And I'm afraid his policies have not led us to prosperity and peace for enough people. That's how you wrap this entirely up from a policy perspective.

Those are the differences. It's time for a new generation. And that's why I'm doing this.

One thing you mentioned is Medicare for All. And I know I've seen previously you've said universal health care. Can you talk more about that? Because that's something that Biden actually actively campaigned against in 2020. Why do you think the voters are ready for this kind of proposal now?

Because I've been listening to voters, and I do a series in Minnesota called Common Ground. I bring six Democrats and six Republicans to a table every six weeks. We've had a number of these convenings. And what I discovered is that Republicans want it just as much as Democrats. Republicans are suffering from medical debt, declaring bankruptcy. In fact, 66 percent of all American bankruptcies right now are because of medical debt.

My migration started back when I was a businessman, recognizing how integral health care was to our employees, recognizing that people were making employment choices not based on what they wanted to do but based on the coverage. [I was] seeing people at other companies who were facing medical debt or bankruptcy because they didn't have coverage.

Then my daughter got sick when she was a teenager, 13 years old, and had Hodgkin's lymphoma. What I saw at our children's hospital in Minneapolis, and what she saw, was kids up and down the hallway with no parents able to be in their rooms during the day. They didn't have paid leave. Many of them didn't have insurance. I really recognized how lucky we were.

As I dug into the numbers, first I advocated for a public option. I thought that was the way to start. I've long been a co-signer on a bill that would allow states to implement their own universal coverage plan. I've tried to, for first responders, lower the Medicare eligibility age for buy-in.

I've come to the conclusion that we need Medicare for All. The system is not working. And when 26 million people have no care whatsoever, when we're spending so much more than necessary, and considering my entire platform is reducing costs for American families, this is the most expedient, productive, and impactful way to do so.

It is a difference [between Biden and me]. It's probably the most glaring difference. In fact, I'm signing on to that bill literally today, and you're the first person to even know about it. It's going to become a hallmark of my service. I've been working with [Congressional Progressive Caucus Chair] Pramila Jayapal, the author of the bill, for many months now, as I've migrated to this conclusion that this is the only way to proceed.

I know you've talked about universal basic income [UBI], which was something that Andrew Yang popularized in 2020. Can you talk more about what your vision for exploring UBI would be?

UBI should be a test, a pilot, because I believe artificial intelligence is going to disrupt our economy in ways that we have to start identifying possible solutions and the time to do so is now. I'm not proposing a national UBI program. I am proposing a pilot because I believe the disruption that is forthcoming is going to be tragic if we don't prepare for it. And whether it's Donald Trump or Joe Biden—men in their 80s I do not believe are in a position to anticipate what is forthcoming.

UBI is just perhaps one solution of many others, including raising the foundation that I just spoke about, health care, housing, education and then you have food and fuel as well, which we can work on under different considerations. That's how we have to ensure that everybody has something, and the foundation for success is much higher for all students, all young people in America. Because I'm afraid we're not gonna be able to do it the old way. If we don't prepare now, artificial intelligence will manage us instead of us managing it.

One thing that was very popular with the American people during the pandemic was stimulus checks. In the short term, since there are a lot of people suffering economically, are stimulus checks something that you think could be on the table?

Stimulus checks in some way, shape or form are like UBI. In fact, more Americans felt financially secure during COVID because they had money in the bank. Remember, when almost half the country can't afford a 400 emergency and a $1,000 check appears in the mail? It's a big deal. And most people had more money in their accounts than they'd ever had at any other time, while the economy was closed, where you couldn't spend it. And I think that has something to do with how people are feeling right now.

The economy is open again, people are spending, no direct checks coming in, and people are not feeling very secure. We did [stimulus checks] for a reason, during a tragic economic issue that frankly got this country through it better than just about any in the entire world. But as I consider UBI, I think there is a test case for such a notion of ensuring that the lowest socioeconomic communities in the country have access to capital to at least build lives where they can afford housing, health care, education.

That's not a bad idea. Because if Donald Trump doesn't ruin this country, I do believe that wealth and income disparities will. Thirty-two percent of the wealth in the country held by 1 percent, only 2.5 percent of the wealth held by the bottom 50 percent of Americans. It's not sustainable. So we have to look at new ways to spread it out.

When you talk about UBI or Medicare for All, the pushback is always: Well, how are you going to pay for it? The deficit is growing. How do you think about the deficit? Is it something that the country needs to address right now?

Absolutely. We have $33 trillion in debt. We are spending $2 trillion a year more than we generate in revenue. It's a massive failure of every administration since [former President] Bill Clinton. Donald Trump's administration added, I think, $7 trillion in debt. I think Joe Biden's going to add a comparable amount, and it's unsustainable and unreasonable. Worst of all, our debt service, the interest we're paying, is going to go from the $400 billion a year range to $800 [billion], which means we have almost no money to allocate to any other investments in America.

It means that we're spending more in the past than we can invest in the future. Yes, it's going to be a tragedy. Every baby born in America right now comes with a $100,000 bill, right in the crib. That's a real problem.

So how? Medicare for All will save the country money. We spend double any country in the world [on health care]. It consumes 18 percent of our entire economy. And we should be lowering that significantly. It should reduce costs. UBI should be actually a stimulus to part of the economy when people who have nothing are able to buy. But when we have so much wealth concentrated in the hands of very few, it is not advantageous for the United States of America.

So the payment mechanism, if you will, is ensuring that everybody pays their fair share. Nobody builds a company by themselves. Nobody generates extraordinary economic success alone. It takes a country with the resources, and education, and infrastructure, and policy to do so. And when you succeed in America, you have an obligation to share more.

But you should also know that what you are sharing is going to be well used. So that's my other proposition—an executive branch that's managed by an executive for the first time in a long time. Zero-based budgeting, top-down assessment by an international consulting firm to identify any way we can save money, eliminate programs or outsource them to the private sector if we can do better, and spend more effectively. Also, have managers in the Cabinet level who've got experience managing multibillion-dollar organizations, not just political appointees.

We have to do this differently, and we have a military-industrial complex that is consuming almost a trillion dollars a year more than the next eight countries combined. I think we can have the strongest national defense in the world, perhaps spend a little less and reallocate some of those resources to helping Americans. But if we don't have these conversations, we're going to be in deep, deep trouble.

Another issue I think you've been quite different from Biden on is marijuana. You've been very pro-legalization. This is something that is popular in red states, in purple states, in blue states, and Biden is not even supporting decriminalization at this point. Why do you think there is a disconnect with Biden on this issue, as well as with other Democrats that might still be opposed to it?

I think it's generational. This is a perfect case, you know, point of why I'm running for president. People in their 80s do not see things, have not lived things, have not experienced things that younger generations have. The fact that we still criminalize cannabis at the federal level is atrocious. It has harmed our Black community. It has harmed thousands and thousands of Americans who are sometimes sitting in prison, while others, mostly white, are making millions of dollars in the same business. It's hypocrisy.

That it's illegal at the federal level, that it is grouped with horrifying narcotics that do kill people—no one's ever died of a cannabis overdose. I think it's tragic when you see state after state after state legalizing and our president taking no steps almost whatsoever to do so. That's a big reason why we have to look at our criminal justice system as well. We've harmed communities based on bad policy. This is one of them.

We should be studying psilocybin, which is helping veterans and those with PTSD and other psychological conditions. It's helping improve their lives. My concern is because they're naturally occurring, medicinals, there's no incentive for the pharmaceutical industry, so they want to maintain the status quo. They propose selling items that make people addicted to them rather than using natural supplements or medicinals to help people that aren't addictive. I think this is a perfect example of where we need generational change to accommodate new thinking.

By the way, universal background checks, 80 percent of the country wants. Women's reproductive rights, most of the country wants. Cannabis legalization, most of the country wants. You know, there's a reason I'm the only one saying the quiet part out loud, out of 535 people in Congress. Most of whom have made this their careers. They can't do the most basic work that the country is asking. No matter your political perspective. It's tragic. But we can change it.

Would you commit to legalizing cannabis?

Absolutely. Immediately. I can't do it alone. But the Congress should be listening to Americans. The Congress should be listening on universal background checks. The Congress should be listening on cannabis. The Congress should be listening on women's reproductive rights. When majorities, supermajorities of the country, believe in these things and the Congress doesn't respond, there's something wrong, and that's what I'm actually pointing out. There is something wrong. People are not being heard, and I intend to fix it.

You touched on this: You and I know the economy is technically doing well, but a lot of voters—especially lower-income and middle-class people—really don't feel it. What should Democrats' message be to make them feel better about the economy?

The message, it shouldn't be a message, it should be the opposite. It should be listening, you know? There's a reason God gave us two ears and one mouth. We should be listening. I'm afraid Democrats have stopped listening to people in broad swaths of this country who are really, really suffering. At least the administration. I'm not saying my colleagues in Congress, because I think we do listen.

But there is a massive disconnect. I think Washington encapsulates people, especially those that have been there for 50 years, who don't get out with everyday people and listen to how tough it is. It's pretty intuitive that when an economy grows and 32 percent of its entire wealth is aggregated in just the hands of 1 percent, that most of that incremental growth will end up in the pockets of those that already are successful. And when only 2.5 percent of all the wealth in this country is held by the bottom 50 percent of Americans, are we surprised that when we have GDP growth most people don't feel it?

No, and that's why we have to look at changing the system. Not a revolution, just an evolution of capitalism that rewards more people—that we create an ownership economy, that people who aspire to achieve can do so without being burdened with massive amounts of debt.

I know that you're part of the LGBTQ Equality Caucus. In the past couple of years, this has been a really animating issue for conservatives, with the so-called Don't Say Gay law and trans issues. Do you think the administration has done enough to respond to this? And how would you, as president, try to steer the country on this issue?

Well, first, we should be a country that welcomes everybody and loves everyone. And I'm sickened that we're even having the debates in the 21st century on subjects that should be so easy for people to accommodate.

Affection for one another. Patriotism. Patriotism means looking out for your fellow American. My daughter is gay. And it's very personal to me too. Not just because she is but because it's my basic ethos. We have to care for everybody. The only thing the administration can be doing more of, I think, is enforcing the human rights laws that we have on the books at the federal level.

The Justice Department has that obligation to look out for every single American. And to this day, some are mistreated. To this day, we have governors, like Governor [Ron] DeSantis, who seem to want to score political points by hurting people. On the other hand, Republican Governor Spencer Cox in Utah looks at it very differently. He says we should lead with love, even if it's uncomfortable sometimes for some people.

I aspire to a country that welcomes everybody, that treats everyone with respect. I think we should be fiercely protective of one another. And if you consider yourself a patriot, it is your first obligation to look out for a fellow American, no matter their gender, no matter their sexuality, no matter their politics, no matter their color, their race, religion. Plain and simple.

I want to talk a bit about foreign policy. When we think about the current approach to Russia and to China, do you think the Biden administration is doing a good job? Do you think they need to shift directions? How would you address those issues?

I think what I've seen is, yes, a good job, but it's a reactive job. And I think it's the responsibility of an effective government, an effective president, to anticipate problems, create, make investments to prevent them in the first place and ensure he or she does everything humanly possible to prevent war.

I'm afraid our foreign policy and our diplomacy, by the evidence, has not been terribly effective. Had it been effective, there would not be a war in Ukraine. Had it been effective, there would not be a war in the Middle East. And frankly, the president guaranteed to restore the soul of America. And I think he's a good man, whom I respect, but he has not restored the soul of America. There is an issue of peace here as well.

From a foreign policy perspective, no, I don't think it has been terribly effective. We are spending billions and billions of dollars trying to support our allies as the world, to many, appears to be in total crisis and chaos. I do think that we need to reassess our approach, our strategies, how we use our diplomatic tools and our military and kinetic tools to ensure a more peaceful world. I think it's time for the United States to look in the mirror and identify where we're successful and where we're not and frankly reimagine a foreign policy for the, not just the 21st century, for the 22nd century.

For young people being raised right now, being born right now, will live into the next century. We should be making those plans now, anticipating, not just responding, when war starts. There's a demand and an appetite for that in this country and all around the world.

When it comes to Ukraine, right now, it doesn't actually look like Ukraine is doing terribly well on the battlefield. Does there come a point where you think the U.S. needs to start pressuring President Volodymyr Zelensky to try to do peace talks with Vladimir Putin? Or how should the U.S. respond in this moment?

I think the U.S. has to allow Ukrainians to make their decision. It's their country. It's their land. We intentionally do not have our own boots on the ground, and that's appropriate.

We've been trying to support an ally that is under threat, under attack. President Biden was then Vice President Biden when Putin took Crimea in 2014, almost 10 years ago. And his whole strategy was to poke the bear and see if anything happened. And nothing happened. I don't think anybody should be surprised that almost a decade later we are facing this tragedy right now.

I do think we should stick with our partner, because if we don't it sends a terrible message to the rest of the world that, once again, the United States is exiting when it should stand firm. And in this case, to diminish one of the vaunted militaries of the world, to not risk a single American life in Ukraine, I think, is good strategy, actually. And I do celebrate that, but we never should have been in the position of having to do so.

European nations, who are most at risk because of Vladimir Putin, should be sharing a whole lot more. It should not be the responsibility only of the United States. Increasingly, it feels like that.

In terms of the Middle East, with Israel and Gaza, Biden has really seemed to frustrate young Democrats and also a lot of people of color, who might be more sympathetic to Palestinians, especially with the Israeli response. What's your perspective on Biden's response to this situation? Would you do something differently?

Once again, I would have worked on this far, far in advance to do my very best to ensure that there was peace between Israel and its neighbors and also a Palestinian state. I think it's another failure of many administrations. Some have tried harder than others. I believe this one should have been trying harder to establish a Palestinian state.

It's tough. Hamas is a major problem. The Palestinian Authority is a major problem. Both essentially terrorist organizations, one of which, clearly, Hamas holding American citizens right now. The Palestinian Authority pays to slay, actually pays Palestinians who would kill Israelis.

Then you have [Israeli Prime Minister] Benjamin Netanyahu, who is also part of the problem. It's time for new leadership, from the West Bank to the West Wing, and I would have invested much more heavily up front to prevent what happened on October 7. The signals were there, the signs were there, the risk was there, and a settlement policy that breeds the distaste and the hate is a big part of the problem.

With all that said, it's time for a Palestinian state. Hamas has to be eliminated, but it's time for a Palestinian state. I intend to be the first Jewish president in American history, and I want to sign documents that establish that for the first time. Because it is the only way to keep Israel safe. It is the only way to ensure Palestinian self-determination and possibility and opportunity. And I think we need to create a 21st-century Marshall Plan, if you will, to establish that and invest and demonstrate not just to Palestinians but the entire Arab world—to the citizens of countries in which people are so oppressed—that there is possibility.

I think that's an opportunity for this generation to do what every generation before us has failed at. And that is to create peace, period. And that should be the calling of my administration and the entire future for the United States. To be a nation that invests in peace but is always prepared, kinetically if necessary.

Some of your colleagues in Congress have been calling for a ceasefire. Is that something you support?

I've been very clear for about seven weeks now. Release all the hostages and concurrently a ceasefire. That should be the predicate. There are eight American citizens being held by Hamas right now in Gaza. And that should be the foremost responsibility of the president and the administration: to get them released, either through diplomatic channels or extracted through special forces.

It's been two months and they need to be released, along with other hostages. The minute that happens, a ceasefire. Israel should exit; a multinational security force should be placed in Gaza, not to include Israel or the U.S.; and then, concurrently, Hamas has to be eliminated. It can't be left to Israel alone. I believe the U.S. should participate in that, along with other nations who recognize that there will never be security in the Middle East as long as Hamas thrives with Iranian support.

At that time, a Marshall Plan, which I'm actually working on something right now that would invest in Palestinian territories, both Gaza and the West Bank. Create the seeds, if you will, for civil society and democracy, and allow Palestinians to choose a path forward. I hope at the same time Israelis choose a new government that is more focused on security through peace than the impossible pursuit of security through only war.

Those are the options I think that will be available, but we have to be intentional. It has to be a massive, all-hands-on-deck initiative. And that's why the answer is yes. There should be a ceasefire concurrent with the release of hostages and security in Gaza and Israel.

Another issue that some Democrats have talked about is conditioning aid to Israel based on human rights abuses or whatever the standard may be. Is that something that you think is on the table?

I think we should always be assessing our foreign aid and who's getting it and how it's being used and be fully accountable for it. We waste a lot of money. We send it to a lot of countries that have terrible practices. We don't use it, I think, to enforce our nation's priorities.

During Israel's war right now, I don't think anything should be conditioned. But I do believe, moving forward, every time we invest money, whether it be domestically or overseas, we should ensure that it meets the values and the principles of the United States of America, is used in the way it's intended, and does not enrich anybody who should not be being enriched by U.S. dollars period.

But right now, no, I don't think we should do so. Moving forward, depending on the outcome of this, I think we should use our dollars as incentives, whether it's for Egypt, for any other country, as we try to create a Palestinian state that is safe and secure. That means we'll have to support a Palestinian state, and I believe that's the only way for Israel to be secure and to end the cycle of bloodshed that is intolerable.

I read that you described Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib as a friend. Also, I think you described her as like a sister to you. After the House vote on condemning Hamas, you said it was "deeply disappointing" to see her and some others vote against that. Have you talked with her about this directly?

Yeah, I just saw her the other day in Washington. We are friends. It's an important friendship. It's not an easy one. I'm sure she would say the same thing. But for her it's very personal. She has a grandmother who lives in the West Bank. She has Palestinian descent. I am a Jewish man. I have great affection for the Israeli people and for Jewish history. And it's tragic what her community is facing right now, what the Jewish community is facing right now is horrifying.

What I've spoken with her about and so many others is it's time for us to join hands. You know, take hands, take arms in that sense of togetherness, before people take arms in the terrible sense, and that's something I want to work with her on. It doesn't mean we see things the same way, doesn't mean that we hurt each other's feelings when we say things about what's very personal. But when we withdraw from those relationships, it's dangerous.

I think that's a good metaphor for what we have to do as individuals in America, what we have to do as a country with others, and if we don't do that, it's going to be tragic again for the entire country. I want to demonstrate to people that anything is possible. Japan is one of our dearest friends now, and we dropped nuclear bombs on them during World War II. But now we became friends again.

Anything is possible if we reconcile. And the same will be [true], I believe, with Israelis and Palestinians. But it starts with people like Rashida Tlaib and me. Because if we can't do it, how can we expect nations to do it?

Related to this issue, we've had upticks in antisemitism; upticks in Islamophobia; anti-Palestinian, anti-Arab sentiments; and then, of course, all the issues on college campuses that have gotten a lot of attention. How should the president or Congress be responding to that? There have been calls for banning groups. You know, Donald Trump has said he wants to ban whole groups of people from the country. What is the appropriate reaction to deal with that?

Banning whole groups of people from this country is why we cannot allow the man to be reelected, period. And at this stage, he's going to, based on the numbers that everybody's seeing every day—and Joe Biden's declined [in] his approval numbers, his poll numbers. He's not gonna win. That's why, exactly why we can't allow that to happen.

What should happen? What should happen is Americans need to be educated about the past. And that is to reconcile the truth about the Holocaust, the truth that Israel for many generations was the David among Goliaths. That drew a lot of progressive love. And now there's a perception that Israel is the Goliath next to a David. And I understand that.

But the truth of the matter is Israel exists for a really important purpose. During the Holocaust, the first refugees came to America and were turned away. Turned away. So we are not a nation that always accepts refugees when they really need it. Israel is the only nation in the world, the only one to which Jewish people can flee if necessary. And through history, the Holocaust, the pogroms, persecution—there needs to be Israel and it needs to be safe and secure.

I don't think Americans understand how important that is. There are 200 Christian-majority nations roughly in the world, 140 Muslim-majority nations in the world, and there's just one Jewish-majority nation.

I think it's time for Americans to understand, support and have affection for Israel. It doesn't preclude having equal affection for Palestinians. And that's who I am. I believe both have rights to exist. Both should have peace and prosperity. But the notion of banning groups, the notion of suppressing speech, even if it's painful, it shouldn't happen.

Was I disgusted by the presidents of MIT and Harvard and Penn? Yeah. I was. Deeply shocked. But that does not mean that we should not allow speech in this country. It means that people need to be educated and understand the consequences of their speech because in many cases it has tragic consequences attached.

Stepping back a bit, it seems you've made yourself a little bit unpopular with some of your Democratic colleagues with your run against Biden. Did you anticipate the level of negativity that you would receive when you announced?

Of course. This is this game, it's a game, it's sick. It has the worst reward system you could possibly imagine. Perverse rewards. It's a culture predicated on silence and staying in line, playing by the team rules. And it's really a terrible consequence to this country. These are people who elected me to the House Democratic Caucus leadership table just a year ago. They're all my friends. They know who I am.

But there's something that bothers Democrats about the practice of democracy right now. In the face of horrible numbers, in the face of literally paving a path for Donald Trump to get back to the White House, some seem disappointed that I would have the audacity to offer my name as an alternative, to present a new vision, which is what we do as Democrats.

I'm not surprised. But what matters isn't what people in Washington think. What matters is 300 and some million Americans all around the country who are so sick and tired of that attitude, are sick and tired of people saying one thing privately, refusing to say the same thing publicly. Sick and tired of screaming of what they need and not being heard. Sick and tired of members of Congress spending all their time with the wealthy and well connected. It's a real problem. So that's what matters.

When you interact with your colleagues, do they bring this up? Do they confront you? Or do they say something different behind the scenes than what they say publicly?

Same thing. Same thing I just shared. It's behind the scenes—hugs and handshakes and welcomes. Then of course, publicly, distaste because that's what the head coach wants from people. And that's the biggest problem we're facing right now. Is the unwillingness of people to torpedo their career so as not to torpedo the country.

I ruined my career in Congress. Absolutely ruined it. And I wish more people there would consider doing the same thing on both sides of the aisle. Because if you're only there to win your next election, you will only behave in a way that ensures that you do so. Which usually is the opposite of what the country wants. That's why I'm trying to call attention to the truth.

Do you think that there's any chance left that Biden will actually step aside?

I hope so. It would be in his best interest. It would be in the country's best interest. We've never needed a multi-candidate competition more than we do right now. Because nobody can say that he is best positioned to beat Donald Trump. Everybody should recognize that there are people better positioned than him to do so. I believe I'm one of them. But that does not mean I'm the only one. And why Democrats would not practice democracy at the time that we need it the very, very most is shocking to me.

The answer is, I hope he does because he is not going to win reelection. He is not electable. That's what the numbers are saying. And I don't think it's too late. I think on January 23 in New Hampshire, we might just surprise people, to help move that question along. I hope it happens. He's a good man. I don't want him to ruin his legacy.

When it comes to the impeachment inquiry, do you think that's something that will hurt President Biden further?

It sure won't help. And the fact is, Donald Trump is a horribly corrupt man. His family philanthropy was shut down in the state of New York. His businesses are under attack for falsifying their records. He has a history of not paying his bills, declaring bankruptcy. He treats people horrible. So that's pretty well defined.

President Biden I do not think is a corrupt man. I think his son is. I think his brother has done some unethical things, based on the evidence, and that's unfortunate. I don't think President Biden is corrupt. But at the end of the day, most Americans will only see a headline saying that "Hunter Biden this" or "President Biden's brother that." And yes, people unfortunately make their decisions based on headlines. Not on the full story. And do I think that's gonna hurt? Yes, of course.

I think a lot of people will say: You know what, they're both corrupt. Both families. That's what we expect in politics. And what a shame when Americans stop having faith in the people that are representing them, stop having faith that the system even allows them to really participate in outcomes.

That's my message to people, is vote in primaries. If you're sick of this, sick of this nonsense, get out and vote in the primary elections. Don't just turn it over to the 12 or 13 percent of Americans who are on the far left or the far right. Let's take this back by returning power to people. You can do it. And you can end this nonsense and end the corruption and end this cycle of people just protecting their positions of power and privilege and prestige. It's doable, but people gotta get out and unify.

You've talked a lot about Biden's polling numbers. However, your polling numbers also don't look great on the national level or in New Hampshire. How are you going to turn that around?

Well, Joe Biden has a 50-year lead on introducing himself to this country, and that's why he's not electable. That's why Gavin Newsom, I don't think, is electable. That's why Vice President Harris, I don't think, is electable, based on their approval numbers.

The good news for me is that 70 percent of the country does not hate me yet. They don't know me yet. That's the issue. I've been at this for two months. My numbers in New Hampshire are going to surprise people. And my numbers nationally will continue to grow as I introduce myself.

There's no question that the Democratic Party National Committee and the presidential campaign is going to try to keep me from being introduced. That's what I would expect. But as long as people have an interest in getting to know me, and as long as I can introduce myself, come May or June of next year, you'll see polls head-to-head that show me beating Donald Trump, and the polls will continue to show President Biden and Vice President Harris losing.

Then Democrats will have a choice. Do we want to proceed with a nominee who is positioned to win, or do we proceed with a nominee who's almost certain to lose? That's why I've invited others to join the race. You know, it's not bad to have competition. That's how I spent my private sector career. It's what we need in politics, and my numbers will continue to grow as his continue to recede. That's how it works in America.

Is there something about you that you think would really surprise voters, that they wouldn't expect?

There's one tragic and one fun. One thing people don't know is I lost my dad in Vietnam.

I'm a lucky guy. I was adopted after he died. I was 6 months old. He was killed three days after the moon landing, in 1969. I couldn't afford college because he had to earn an ROTC scholarship. And my mom was 24 and widowed. We lived with my great-grandparents after he was killed for three years, and then I was adopted.

I got lucky and was adopted into an extraordinary family. I've lived on both sides of advantage. When I was adopted, my grandmother became Dear Abby, and my aunt, Ann Landers, the advice columnist. So I lived in a household with a lot of advice and celebrity and a lot of gratitude. My life is formed by both tragedy and gratitude. And that's part of the American story.

I'd love it for people to get to know me. And I'd love to meet you.