"He gives the impression that he really doesn't care, but somewhere inside him, he probably cares more than most."
For Academy Award-winning actor Gary Oldman, now is the perfect time for his first TV series. Calling today a "whole new era of TV" after years of "snobbery" from film actors, he says, "You will see some of the best writing and acting and cinematography and set design in your home, on your TV." And that's exactly what you'll find in his Apple TV+ series Slow Horses, now in its third season with the fourth already filmed and waiting in the wings. Based on Mick Herron's Slough House book series, Oldman plays Jackson Lamb, the disheveled (and likely intoxicated) head of a U.K. MI5 division for security agents who have screwed up but not been fired. "He's in, but he's out. It's that thing of being really very good at something in a world that you absolutely despise." Lamb is more in line with Oldman's usual roles, more adult-driven, with the exception of one of his most famous characters: Sirius Black in the Harry Potter franchise. "My fan base went from [age] 36 to 6 overnight," he said, adding he's so "privileged" to have been a part of it.
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Editor's Note: This conversation has been edited and condensed for publication.
What about Slow Horses continues to excite you, season after season?
The show is based on books by Mick Herron, and so this world we inhabit is totally out of his imagination. The first season was the first book. As the books progress, he gets more familiar with these people and can have more fun with them. And they get better. The real joy for me is not only that Lamb is a delicious character to play, we get all the same people back. The crew comes back, makeup, hair, costume. We've got season four in the can—same group of people. The actors are wonderful and the most lovely bunch you could ever hope to be around. I'm very, very fond of them, very attached. We have one director, who essentially is making a six-hour movie, but we're not switching up the director every two episodes. We have one vision. And the terrific team of writers, mainly headed by Will Smith, who's our main writer. And so it's sort of like a family. Above and beyond the fact that the world is interesting and the material is really good, I feel very privileged and very lucky to be working with this group of people.
Jackson Lamb is such an interesting character. What about him did you respond to?
With someone like him, he's in but he's out. It's that thing of being really very good at something in a world that you absolutely despise. What's interesting playing him [is] he gives the impression that he really doesn't care, but somewhere inside him, he probably cares more than most. He would get the award for the worst boss, yet is deeply loyal to the team. And in season three, obviously, it's one of our own, so the story in that sense is more personal for them. He gives River a hard time, and that's partly because there's other baggage from the grandfather. But he sees potential in River, maybe sees a little bit of himself. And if Apple is happy to keep us on the air, little pieces of Lamb start to emerge and come out. He really was a wonderful, very good agent, and has gone through sort of hell and back, so he's very dysfunctional, deeply psychologically scarred from the whole thing. And very damaged. And yet still manages to get himself off the couch and off a bender, and come in and care, even though he would like to give you the impression that he really doesn't. So, it's wonderful.
You've never really done television before, especially not episodic like this. What about this type of storytelling do you enjoy?
I like long-form TV. Going way back, watching soap operas like Upstairs, Downstairs. And then this whole new era of TV. There was always that sort of snobbery of I'm a film actor. And, of course, that really doesn't happen anymore. You will see some of the best writing and acting and cinematography and set design in your home, on your TV. I've always been a fan of long-form and really with a movie you get one shot and you got to tell it in two hours or whatever. You often find that character is sacrificed for story. I have kind of revisited characters with [Harry] Potter and Batman, but to come back and have yet another go. What's interesting is responding to the various scenarios that come up. Lamb essentially is set. The die is set. Yeah. You know, I'm not going to be going to the writers, "What if Lamb falls in love? Can I have a romantic relationship?" It's not going to happen. He's sort of in a lovely way is flatlined. I think that, as an audience, if you like the show, when a new season comes out, you want to return and reconnect to that grumpy and hygienic, flatulent, yes, boozy slob.
And that comes from the writing, especially Will Smith's tone. The show is a drama, but his background in comedy is clear in many parts of the script.
Well, like I said, the template is all there with Mick's books, and they're very funny. And he has come up with these characters. [Will is] a lovely man. He is the most adorable guy. He really is terrific fella. And we have a very good relationship. The more familiar he is with us and our voice, he'll think of a line and go, "This is a perfect line for Jack." I can't speak to other people, because this is my first real time on a show, but Will is pretty much there everyday. He's on set and this team can work on the fly. A line might not be sitting right, and then [Will] goes away and he really comes up with something very quickly. So that's also very beneficial to have the writer at the monitor.
I feel like if this were an American show, Lamb would be very different. We like heroes, you know? What is it about British sensibility that makes this show different and Lamb different?
You know, I've lived in America now for a very long time. If you said to an American, "Oh, I'm really gonna get around to writing that book. I've got this idea for a novel." Invariably, an American might say, "Oh, that's great. Good for you. Really? Oh, I love that. What's it about?" If you said that to a British person, I would say, "Really? Must you?" It's different. You know, a critic that pointed out, it was very funny, that Duffy [played by Chris Reilly], the head of the dogs, he's dipping a chunky KitKat into a cup of tea. That's so British. Yeah, it would. And now that would connect with a U.K. audience more so than a than U.S. audience. And it's just that thing of it really. An American kid would look at a Rolls Royce and go, "Wow, man, one day, I'm gonna get me one of those." In England, we'd key it and go, "Flash bastard." In the first season, I thump on the floor to get River's attention. And there's a moment where I think I'm drying my hands. And Cartwright [played by Jack Lowden] comes in, and I expect it to be someone else. I look at him and I go, "Oh, God." And that's the show, ya know what I mean? It's the sort of rolling of the eyes. It's just a little bit grimy, isn't it?
OK, as an American, I need to ask you about your history with some of our presidents. You famously played Lee Harvey Oswald in JFK, another assassin in Air Force One...
It does play a lot. It's always on cable. What have [I done]? Well, I've assassinated a president [in JFK]. Or supposedly.
Yeah. It depends on who you talk to.
And then played one British Prime Minister [Winston Churchill in The Darkest Hour].
And you won an Oscar for that one. Pretty good. And you just played President Harry Truman in Oppenheimer.
I know a little bit about him. But it's like I was saying earlier with the movies, that is just a day's work. It's one scene. You've got to let the audience know who you are. It's one quick stroke of the brush. So that was kind of interesting and quite challenging, because you have nothing before or after. It's just one particular moment in time between these two people. But I think it is true that he actually did say, "I never ever want to see that crybaby again." [to Robert Oppenheimer]
So you're very well known for Harry Potter, but before that you were well known for more mature movies. Was the sudden onslaught of younger fans a big change for you?
My fan base went from [age] 36 to 6 overnight. I'll give you an anecdote. I was camping with my kids and I ran into my dentist. And he said, "Oh, I'm here, with my son. He's over there." And it was like this little campfire, and a bench with all these kids sitting on it. And he said, "He's absolutely obsessed with Harry Potter and Sirius Black. His name's Tom." So I went okay, on my way. And I went over, tap this kid on his shoulder, and he looked up. I went, "Hey, Tom, I said, I'm Sirius Black." And a kid at the end of the bench said to me, "No, you're not. You're James Gordon."
Really puts things in check, doesn't it?
Yeah. Sometimes when they they don't readily recognize you and then they realize that it's you, the look on their faces, it's absolutely priceless. It's there. It was real. I mean, it's a cinematic phenomenon. There's never ever going to be anything like it again. And so I feel very lucky, very privileged to be part of it. They just killed me off to quit. [laughs]
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